COMMON QUESTIONS PEOPLE ASK
Yes, gold coin rings are fun! I have done a few, as well as platinum.
The Gold Buffalo is 24k (.9999 or 99.99%) gold so it is very soft. You would need to leave that work hardened when it is finished or it would be too soft. I typically only anneal pure gold and pure silver coins once but it depends on the ring size.
Gold Eagles are 22k or 91.67% and alloyed with copper to make them harder. They can be annealed more often and left a bit more annealed when finished.
One issue with gold and platinum is the “orange peel” effect. If the metal is stretched too much or reduced too much an orange peel look can happen to the surface of the metal. It can obscure the detail of the coin a little. Be sure to match the ring size to the coin size. Big ring with big coins and small ring size with smaller coins.
NOTE: Silver is more dense than copper, gold is about more dense than silver and platinum is more dense than gold. So the same weight of the coins will be dramatically different sizes with the different metals.
I would start with clad coins, halves and then quarters and then clad dollars and dimes. Get to know the limitations of the equipment, the coins and yourself. See how big you can go and how small you can go with each coin. I have a chart of what I do in my manual. I tend to prefer the narrower banded rings. That means larger holes but it also depends on ring size. Larger ring sizes need smaller holes to mitigate for narrowing and thinning of the band. Smaller rings need larger holes to mitigate for widening and thickening of the band.
Get to where you can make many different sizes with clad coins consistently. Then move to silver half dollars and silver quarters, dollars then dimes. The silver quarters are difficult because they like to warp due to the difference in thickness of the metal. I discuss this in the manual. Once you’re confident in silver, move to gold. Once good in gold, try platinum. Platinum is a weird metal. It can be stained with iron when heated and it doesn’t abrade but rather smears so burnishing is the best technique to finish the edges of the ring.
Here is a good video showing my latest techniques with a silver coin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LgZvibJ2rE&t=37s
- punch a hole
- fold it
- stretch it
- reduce it and finish
- punch a 9/16″ hole (wider band, used for larger rings and fat tire look. (I usually would punch a 5/8″ or 11/16″ hole for this size ring and the look I like. ))
- bevel hole using deburring tool to remove stress risers
- begin to fold with steel starter cone
- anneal
- finish folding until coin hits folding cone/mandrel
- anneal
- stretch out 4-5 sizes past target size of 13 to size 17-18. (anneal as needed. I usually would stretcher 3-4 for a soft rounded look I like))
- anneal
- reduce reed side in 17 degree reduction die 1-2 sizes
- remove excess material on inside reed side with deburring tool
- finish reducing reed side in a 25 degree reduction die to target size
- anneal
- reduce cut side using 25 degree die to look symmetric only, not size. Sizing is already finished on the reed side.
- If you need to reshape, simply stretch and reduce again.
- “should not need need Swede for this coin and size unless wobbles form or you stretch too much and 17/25 degree dies start to remove detail on coin”
- file, sand, buff, patina and finish
- Crack open a cold one and enjoy
- Size 13 is close to maximum size for this coin. I wouldn’t go over 14.
- punch a 7/16″ hole (wider band, used for larger rings and fat tire look. 13 is a pretty big target size, may need to even punch with a 3/8″? (I usually would punch a 1/2″ or 9/16″ hole for this size ring and the look I like))
- bevel hole using deburring tool to remove stress risers
- begin to fold with steel starter cone
- anneal
- finish folding until coin hits folding cone/mandrel
- anneal
- stretch out 3-4 sizes past target size of 13 to a size of 16-17 (anneal as needed. I usually would stretcher 2-3 for a soft rounded look I like))
- anneal
- reduce in 17 degree die 1 size
- remove excess material on inside reed side with deburring tool
- finish reducing in a 25 degree die to target size “anneal as needed”
- anneal
- reduce cut side to look symmetric only, not size. Sizing is already finished on the reed side.
- If you need to reshape, simply stretch and reduce again.
- “should not need need Swede for this coin and size unless wobbles form or you stretch too much and 17/25 degree dies start to remove detail on coin”
- file, sand, buff, patina and finish
- Crack open a cold one and enjoy
Here is a vid on the auto punch:
j
Here are the main dies I would use:
When you want to re-apply a patina to a ring, be sure there is no oil on the ring. Even just touching it once with bare fingers will not allow the chemical reaction as the oil acts as a barrier. Clean the ring with acetone. I like to use the paper blue shop towels. These are actually very clean towels to use. Place the ring into your black max or other patina solution without touching it with bare fingers or anything with oil on it. I let it soak for a few minutes.
Here are my steps when applying a new patina, or even reapplying. I use the Sally’s Beauty Supply Miracle buffing block with the white and grey side. I use the grey side to remove any fire scale on the ring and then buff with the white side. I’ll then clean the ring with acetone, apply the patina with black max. Once the ring is black, I will then buff the patina with the white side to a high black shine. This seem to “set” the patina a little more. I’ll then remove the patina from the high points of the detail with the grey side and finish with one last buff on the white side all over the ring.
Here is the link to the buffing block:
www.sallybeauty.com/nails/nail-tools-and-accessories/nail-files-and-buff…
Great question on the stone setting! I need to do a video on that.
For quarters I use a 2mm stone, half dollars 2.5 mm, and silver dollars. 3.5 mm
Start with a 1 – 1.5 mm drill for the starting hole, depending on stone size. I then use a ball (or round) burr the size of the stone (or slightly smaller). This quickly removes material for the next burr. I also deburr the hole inside of the ring with the ball so it does not catch on the finger. I finish the stone setting hole with a stone conical burr, the size of the stone (or slightly smaller). You can enlarge the hole if need be with a slightly smaller burr but you can’t shrink the hole if you use one that is too big. A pair of calipers is nice to size the stone and burrs to be sure.
I like to do a 3 bead set but there are lots of ways to set the stone. The 3 bead set is fast and pretty. Start with a point graver to push and hold the stone in place and create a sliver at the same time. I then use a knife graver to clean up on either side of the sliver. There is a specific way to hold the graver and manipulate it to cut efficiently. Put the ball of the handle in the palm of your hand and hold the graver cutter with the thumb and forefinger. Choke way up on the graver with your thumb. I like to place my thumb on the ring as well for better control. The technique is to wiggle the graver back and forth slightly to initiate the cut under control. Watch out with your other hand if you slip! I’ve lost a bit of blood that way ;) A sharp graver is critical. Check sharpness with your finger nail. If it bites, it’s sharp. If it slips, it’s dull. Then use a bead setting tool to bead the sliver. Clean up around the stone with a burnishing tool.
I use Rio Grande for most of the tools and materials.
Drill Motor:
https://www.nsk-nakanishi.co.jp/industrial-eng/mgt/
Birthstones. I can’t find the month sets but they should have them?
https://www.riogrande.com/product/gemstones–diamonds/?Material=Alexandrite%2CAmethyst%2CAquamarine%2CDiamond%2CGarnet%2CPeridot%2CRuby%2CSapphire%2CTopaz%2CTourmaline%2CZircon
Drill and burrs (make sure to match the shaft size to your motor, I just pulled these up for shape reference):
Hope this helps!
Jason
No problem with that. Just make sure the round is annealed. I have done a 2″ brass round before. You can also pre-bevel the edge of the coin where it makes contact to create a larger surface area. The zinc coating may wear off but that is o.k. The top housing is case hardened and will hold up. I would start the fold in the 1.6″ @ 17 degree die. You may need to finish the fold in the 1.5 side of the same die. Once it is folded, you can flip the coin over and reduce it down more in the same die, or smaller die, which ever one it fits into, and then start the Swede process I do this for every ring I make. I don’t always use the swede dies but I always use the 17 degree dies for folding and initial reduction and in conjunction with the swede dies. Depending on your ring size, you may need some smaller 17 degree dies too. I like to finish the ring, after the swede die, on 17 and 25 degree dies to get the shape I want.
I am in the process of getting a larger swede die out on the market but I make Silver Eagle coin rings that are 1.6″ in diameter using the method described above using the 1.5 x 1.6 @ 17 degree die and the largest Dollar Swede die.
Here are the main dies I would use:
Fold with
https://jasons.works/product/reduction-folding-die-silver-eagle-sized-coins/
Reduce with:
https://jasons.works/product/universal-folding-reduction-die-17-degrees-13×14/
Depending on ring size, you may need smaller dies too.
Dollar swede die. Choose the die size on the right:
https://jasons.works/product/swede-die-ross-push-follwer-kit-choice/
Would finish on smaller 17 and 25 degree dies. Ring size would determine which die I would use. Which ever one fit.
This is quite rare but can certainly happen. Do you live in a humid region or near the ocean? Do you keep any acids or oxidizers in your shop like black max? I keep mine outside.
The punches are a high carbon tool steel so they are more prone to rust but should not be rusting at the degree you’re describing. I have found this product to be most effective and is not a petroleum based product, which I have health issues with:
https://www.amazon.com/Fluid-Film-TPAS11-Penetration-Displacement/dp/B00B93ZXGS/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=lanolin+anti+rust&qid=1594677252&sr=8-5
I also have used this before, more for firearms though:
https://www.amazon.com/Break-12-Ounce-Cleaner-Lubricant-Preservative/dp/B003THLBYU/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=breakfree&qid=1594677376&sr=8-5
The reed side will always be a smaller size because it is thicker. It is thicker for two reasons.
Number one reason is that this part of the coin is thicker. The reed is thicker or raised in order to protect the detail of the coin. As you slide your silver dollar across the bar to pay for that beer, the reed is making contact with the bar and not the “field” of the coin, the detail of the coin. This allows the coin to wear less in order to recognize the coin for a longer period of its life.
The second reason is the forming of the ring. When the hole is punched (in the thinner field of the coin) it is folded and stretched to form the ring. This stretching thins out the metal even more of the cut side. The reed side is compressed and is thickened even more.
This is why is is so important to overstretch your ring past your target size and then reduce the reed side first to hit your target size and then take the overstretched cut side and reduce it to only match the outer look of the reed side making a symmetric ring. If you do not overstretch your ring first, your rings will look conical. The more you overstretch, the more rounded or fat tire look you will get. The less you overstretch, the less rounded appearance you will have. I like 1-2 sizes over for quarters. 2-3 sizes over for half dollars and 3-4 sizes over for dollars. I like a little rounded, not too much.
What coins are you using right now? The silver Washingtin quarters and Ben Franklin halves will alway be a bit more difficult and wobble at just about every step because of their difference in thickness.
The folding is a tricky part in the making of the ring but it actually is not that critical of an issue I have found. If it is a little off, it will get straightened out in the reduction steps. The ring stretcher will actually deform the ring quite a bit and make it out of round as well. So it starts wonky no matter what. The reduction dies are the tools best for keeping things true. Here are the steps and some tricks I use:
– punch a hole
– deburr/bevel the hole on both sides
– add a dry lube to the edge of the coin that will make contact with the 17 degree die. I like the dry lube Burr Life but an Ivory soap bar works as well.
– wipe the inside of the die clean of any dust or debris
– set the coin in the die and press the ram down on to the coin to level it in the 17 degree die ( I like to fold with my 1 ton arbor press, gives me more room)
– carefully set the steel starter cone in the hole and pressdown until heavy resistance is felt
– check the hole for any small tears (stress risers)
– anneal the coin. dull red in a dark room. Let cool to a dark heat and then quench in cool water
– place the coin in the 17 degree die.
– add dry lube to my plastic folding mandrel. This keeps the coin from sticking and reduces friction. I like to use Burr Life but an Ivory soap bar works too.
– insert the mandrel and slowly press down. If the coin shifts, I hold the high edge of the coin with one finger and press back and forth from the coin to the ram to level it out. Once close to level, I press slowly and watch carefully. If it is just a little off, I do not worry about it. Press all the way down to where the mandel is making contact with the coin.
– Check for any stress risers
– anneal
– stretch out past my target size. 2-3 for halves, 3-4 for silver dollars
– anneal
– reduce the reed side first to my target size using 17 degree dies first and finishing with 25 degree die.
– roll the cut edge over, using 17 or 25 die, to match the look of the reed side. This side will always be bigger because it is thinner.
Aluminum, unfortunately, is not a good metal to use. The melt point is extremely low and it has very strange characteristics. Brass, bronze, copper, silver, gold, platinum, and some other non ferrous metals are o.k. Nickel can cause allergic reaction to about 20% of the population so that is not recommended but can be done. It is a hard metal as well requiring a lot of force. There are quite a few metals that can be considered toxic, like lead. Aluminum as well in fact.
That is a great question. It’s it a bit hard to answer because there are so many options. I can share what I do and the tools I use.
Here are my steps:
– punch coin with my auto punch. Generally 9/16″ hole for a half dollar. Depends on ring size.
– deburr hole with deburring tool
– steel starter cone to start the fold in a 1.1 x 1.2 @ 17 degree die in a 1 ton arbor press
– anneal using an acetylene torch in a brick annealing station. Take to a dull red in a dark room
– quench in cool water
– finish folding in the 1.2 17 degree die using my plastic folding mandrel in a 1 ton arbor press
– anneal
– stretch out 3 sizes past my target size on my Durston ring stretcher/reducer using a paper towel to protect the detail
– (I may use my Swede dies at this point depending on ring size and overall look of the ring at this point)
– Reduce the reed side in my Durston about 2 sizes 17 degree die (whatever size die that fits. Depends on ring size I have a saying with my tools, “If it fits, It’ll work”
– anneal
– deburr inside of reed
– reduce reed side to target size in 25 degree die (whatever die size that fits, depends on ring size)
– reduce cut side to match symmetrical to the reed side. I may use a 17 o 25 degree die, depends how it looks.
– File sharp edges and buff the file marks out. Final fit and finish
– remove fire scale using Sally’s Miracle Buffing blocks.
– clean with acetone
– patina in black max
– polish patina with white side of Sally’s block
– remove patina from high points with grey side of Sally’s buffing block
– Polish ring with white side again
– apply renaissance wax on out side of ring, Very very small amount of wax.
The Auto starter kit is a great way to get started but you can “upgrade” later with 25 degree dies, the Swede kit and more 17 die sizes. The Master Gamut Kit has everything I sell for coin rings. The bigger the kit the bigger the savings. I use most everything in the Gamut kit but I have found myself getting away from the small coin rings like dimes. Not worth the time and difficulty of making them. Some people love them though. It is nice having the smaller tools just in case.
I hope this helps. The upgrades kind of are necessary unless you get everything at once but that is a big commitment. I myself did upgrades through my discovery of doing this craft. I sold my older tools too get/invent newer ones
That is a great question. I prefer to finish my polishing using the white buffing side of my Sally’s Miracle buffing block. This leaves a mirror finish without any residue. I do use something else that may work for you though? It is a sonic cleaner and steam pressure cleaner. I think the sonic cleaning may help loosen the residue and then the high pressure steam could then remove it? Here is a link:
https://www.riogrande.com/product/gemoro-ultraspa-ultrasonic-and-steam-cleaner/334000
I use this machine to remove grime and grit in between stones and their settings at a microscopic level. I think this would work well. Be sure to read the instructions when refilling the distilled water tank. It is a little counter intuitive.
Hope this helps.
Thanks!
Jason
It is excellent that you are working on a platinum coin ring! This metal can be a bit tricky. I generally recommend trying a gold coin first but it sounds like you have the skill sets to do platinum. The first one is always the most exciting!
Here are some points of interest I have learned about platinum:
1. It anneals similar to silver and gold. Take to a dull red heat in a pitch black room, let cool to a dark heat and quench in cool water.
2. Ferrous metal can stain the platinum, especially if the platinum is hot. I use copper tongs/tweezers to grab the coin when I am annealing.
3. Because of the stain issue, I use a separate set of brand new finishing tools for platinum like the buffing blocks, tweezers, burnishers, etc. I use the standard Jason’s Works (JW) forming tools and techniques when shaping.
4. Platinum can get an “orange peel” surface if stretched or reduced a lot. I limit the size options for rings due to this. Platinum is very very dense so a 1 ozt coin is about the size of a silver half dollar. Size 9-12 would be ideal for an American Platinum Eagle. I try not to overstretch as much as I usually would before reducing because of the orange peel issue. I’ll use a JW stainless steel and plastic folding mandrel or cone to stretch the cut side to shape. It is a very interesting feeling to have such a small ring weigh so much on the finger!
5. If using an American Eagle, I like a wider band to keep the date as much as possible.
6. Platinum does not polish like other metals. It has more of a smearing characteristic. The metal is not really removed by filing, sanding or buffing. It is kinda sticky, per say? That is one reason people like platinum rings as they do not wear down as much over time by the loss of metal. In order to get a high polish on the cut side of the ring you will need to use a burnishing tool. This will achieve a high polish for you. I use the white side of the Sally’s Miracle Buffing Block to polish the rest of the ring. It is more of a burnishing block on that side.
Hope this helps, I’m excited for you! These are fun to make and a great skill set to have. Always nice to expand one’s knowledge and get the heart pumping when silver gets a bit mundane :)
J
No problem with that. Just make sure the round is annealed. I have done a 2″ brass round before. You can also pre-bevel the edge of the coin where it makes contact to create a larger surface area. The zinc coating may wear off but that is o.k. The top housing is case hardened and will hold up. I would start the fold in the 1.6″ @ 17 degree die. You may need to finish the fold in the 1.5 side of the same die. Once it is folded, you can flip the coin over and reduce it down more in the same die, or smaller die, which ever one it fits into, and then start the Swede process I do this for every ring I make. I don’t always use the swede dies but I always use the 17 degree dies for folding and initial reduction and in conjunction with the swede dies. Depending on your ring size, you may need some smaller 17 degree dies too. I like to finish the ring, after the swede die, on 17 and 25 degree dies to get the shape I want.
I am in the process of getting a larger swede die out on the market but I make Silver Eagle coin rings that are 1.6″ in diameter using the method described above using the 1.5 x 1.6 @ 17 degree die and the largest Dollar Swede die.
Here are the main dies I would use:
Fold with
https://jasons.works/product/reduction-folding-die-silver-eagle-sized-coins/
Reduce with:
https://jasons.works/product/universal-folding-reduction-die-17-degrees-13×14/
Depending on ring size, you may need smaller dies too.
Dollar swede die. Choose the die size on the right:
https://jasons.works/product/swede-die-ross-push-follwer-kit-choice/
Would finish on smaller 17 and 25 degree dies. Ring size would determine which die I would use. Which ever one fit.
It is rare for me to get a request to re-patina a ring. I try to let them know up front it will wear away. I don’t charge people if they ask though.
I do it the same the second time,. I just don’t have to remove any fire scale.
Here are my steps when applying a new patina, or even reapplying. I use the Sally’s Beauty Supply Miracle buffing block with the white and grey side. I use the grey side to remove any fire scale on the ring and then buff with the white side. I’ll then clean the ring with acetone, apply the patina with black max. Once the ring is black, I will then buff the patina with the white side to a high black shine. This seem to “set” the patina a little more. I’ll then remove the patina from the high points of the detail with the grey side and finish with one last buff on the white side all over the ring.
Here is the link to the buffing block:
https://www.sallybeauty.com/nails/nail-care-and-accessories/nail-files-and-buffers/miracle-buff-and-shine-block/SBS-154795.html
These can be tough. They like to wobble and split a lot because they are so thick and thin in places. SIze 15 is huge for this coin. I usually do not go past 14 for a half dollar and this particular coin would want to split.
Annealing is taking the coin to a dull red heat in a pitch black room, letting it cool to a dark heat then quenching in water. . If you have any light on it, you will not see the true color. This is done as needed throughout the ring making process. The coin will work harden as you make the =ring, stretching and reducing the metal. I would suspect about 4 annealings would be sufficient for that ring size.
You will need to overstretch the ring 2-3 times past you target size to get a symmetrical looking ring, that means stretched to a size 17 minimum. You will lose some details because of this and most likely split the ring. Be sure to remove any and all stress risers (micro tears) along the cut edge to help keep it from tearing. Stretch in small increments, twisting the ring to place it on a different part of the stretcher each time and check for stress risers often.
I like local coin shops. Let them know what your doing and they should let you pick out your own.
An easy calculation to see how much over spot your paying for 90% silver U.S. dimes, quarters and half dollar coins is:
.715 x face value x silver price = value in silver
For example, if you are buying 6 silver quarters and 12 silver half dollars, that equals $7.50 in face value. Today’s silver price is $17.20. So that silver is worth:
.715 x 7.5 x 17.20 = $92.24. Anything over is the premium the shop is charging for their profit. They also buy below spot for their profit.
Morgan dollars are different though. They are about 24 grams of silver. These coins carry numismatic value (value through rarity) and usually sell per coin from $17 – 30$ depending on quality. Look for feathers on teh eagles chest on the reverse for wear. Here’s a good video showing ho to pick coins. :
Anything over is the premium the shop is charging for their profit. They also buy below spot for their profit.
I also go to APMEX.com They have a great selection. Sometimes a little high in price but they always have something:
https://www.apmex.com/
You don’t have to extrude the ring. You just have to press it in as far as you need to get the size and shape you want. This is the reason for the witness lines on the pushers. You can take notes on what line will give you a certain size for a type of coin. You should be able to get a max size of 20+.
You can flip the ring over and press reed side down for your last push to get a straight wall. For example, if your target size is 12, push down reed side up until you get a size 13 or so, flip over and press reed side down until you get size 12, take notes on your witness lines for repeat sizes in the future, I actually don’t use the lines myself. With enough time you just get a feel for it.
I actually only us the swede die to about 2 sizes over my target size then finish in the 17 and 25 degree dies. I like that look, a soft round.
This can be one or two things. Reticulation or orange peel.
Reticulation occurs when the surface of the metal begins to melt. It looks like wrinkles and happens during the heating process when you anneal and you get it too hot. To avoid this, anneal in a dark room and remove the flame to see the color of the metal. As soon as you see a dull red color, let it cool to a dark heat and quench in cool water. This is a general annealing rule for any non ferrous metal . Silver is the best thermal conductor so you will notice it heats up much quicker than any other metal and easier to reticulate.
Orange peel occurs when the surface of the metal becomes weak and starts to buckle. I have noticed this is more prevalent in the pure metals such as silver, gold and platinum. When the ring is reduced more and more or when it is stretched more and more. The more it is manipulated, the more orange peel will occur. Alloyed metals seem to not have this issue. I have not been able to find a resolution to this as of yet. Just let your customers know this occurs more with the pure metals and is unavoidable.
There are actually 3 different types of dies. Folding/reducing 17 degree dies, reducing/fat tire 25 degree dies and Swedish dies at 5 degree.
The most important die is the 17 degree folding reducing. This is the primary die for folding the coin to a cone then reducing the cone into a ring. You’ll need a steel starter cone and universal plastic folding cones to do this. The 25 degree die is optional to help get a few sizes smaller and make a more rounded or”fat tire” look. the Swedish dies are also optional but give you more options in sizes as you can take rings down to a very small size, making straight walled rings and they also help to remove any wobbles.
The .9 x 1.0 @ 17 degree will fold and reduce U.S. quarters and similar sized coin. U.S. quarters are just under 1.0 inches, therefore they work in that die. U.S half dollars are 1.2 inches in diameter, so the 1.1 x 1.2 17 degree die is used to fold and reduce thoughts. As the ring gets smaller, you’ll need smaller dies. As you stretch it out, you’ll need bigger dies to finish it off.
There are several factors that go into my pricing of the coin rings I make.
I focus on the highest quality possible so I do spend time picking out the coin and creating the ring myself when an order is placed. Some makers hire employees to help them, which is fine, but I do not. Also, if I am not happy with the finished ring, I will start over again. I prefer quality over quantity but nothing against the makers that make high quantity, it is the makers choice. There is high demand for these rings as well.
Another consideration is the wear on the ring. If a high priced coin is purchased and made into a ring, in a very short period of time, that extra money paid for the detail may be lost as rings are worn down, scratched, dinged, etc very quickly. If worn every day and you are active, all of the details can be lost and a smooth band is left on the outside. If/when I make my wedding band, I would put the critical side on the inside of my band and expect the outside to be worn smooth as that would be a daily worn ring. A very nice coin ring with extra money spent on detail to show on the outside, gold plate, etc should be worn as a special occasion ring or at least expect the ring to be worn down.
I have been raising my price slowly over the past 11 years or so as my quality improves but also to lower demand to something that I am comfortable with. I also fully guarantee the ring. If you don’t like it, you can return it for a full refund. I also offer free resizing.
For most of my silver coin rings, I do not purchase the highest priced coin. The highest priced coins may not only be because of the crisp detail of the coin but may also be due to the rarity of the year it was minted. This is called numismatic value. A high priced coin may have poor detail but be minted in a rare year. I will hand select the coins at a coin shop with the best detail and upon a ring order, then select the best one I have for that particular year. If the year is not critical, I will select the best coin I have at the time of the order.
However, if a coin is only available with numismatic value, for example the 1 ozt platinum High Relief Angel Isle of Man, there is a very large numismatic value that is unavoidable and is added to the overall price. With this comes great risk because once a hole is punched in the coin, that value is lost until the ring is finished. If the coin is not successfully turned into a ring, that is a considerable amount of money lost so this risk is incorporated into the price. This is the reason for the higher priced gold rings and platinum rings. Also, if a ring fails, it is more difficult to sell platinum as scrap therefore increasing the risk to the maker again.
I can also make rings from customers coins but there is a risk of a flaw in the coin or mistake on my part that would destroy the coin and not be a successful ring. This is rare but possible. If this were to happen, I would either refund completely and return the metal or attempt another. The price is the same due to the higher risk associated with the coin.
So the main factors for pricing for me are quality, price of the coin, demand, guarantee and risk associated with the coin.
It is generally copper that discolors. Brass and bronze have a large amount of copper in their alloy also causing the discoloration. Unfortunately, rings are so prone to wear, there is nothing long term that will protect them from interacting with a person’s skin. I have tried clear nail polish, lacquer, protecta clear, etc. (You also need to be careful of harmful chemicals with any coating) Gold plating may be the best but it is still only temporary, until the gold wears off. The best thing to do, if you make rings containing copper, is to let the customer know about the discoloration and why. It is just a chemical reaction with the skin. Some people get it more than others. There is also some that believe the copper can help with arthritis. This can be a benefit. I have met one person who had a negative reaction to silver. That was a first. (Perhaps a vampire?….eek!)
I do ship to Canada. Please be aware of the shipping cost, VAT taxes and customs fees however. This can add up. I ship USPS 6-10 day priority but it can take longer as customs can hold it for a longer time.
The punch will work with Canadian coins. Be aware though that many of your current coinage has a steel core with a nickel clad over it. This steel core, if exposed, can damage the reduction dies. The dies are designed for non-ferrous metals. Silver, brass, copper, gold, platinum, etc.
Here is the white lithium grease that is applied to the threads of the punch housings when manufactured:
https://amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Lithium-Grease-White/dp/B005T8OBP8/ref=sr_1_5
Be sure to clean the male and female threads thoroughly to remove any dirty grease and particles. Acetone works very well on cleaning or mineral spirits that cut oil. Apply a small amount of the white lithium grease on the male thread at the end of the top housing. This will evenly distribute the grease onto the female thread. Lithium grease actually adds a little friction, which is what you want. If you use a thin oil, the thread can screw too fast and lock up at the end of the thread.
I do make rings from customer’s coins. The price for silver dollars is $195 for a standard patina + $75 for two tone gold and + $75 for a flush set birthstone.
The Peace dollar makes for a pretty good ring. They do have a relatively light mint on the date that makes it a little difficult to see and they can be tricky in forming. They are big coins so are better for big rings. What size would you want?
One thing to consider is the chance of the coin/ring breaking during the process. There is always a chance of this happening. Sometimes there are flaws in the coin that can not be seen until it is to late. I would refund you of course and return the metal or I can make another and return the metal of the first one.
That is a great question on the O.D. No one has really asked that before.
I’ve found that different O.D.’s have “sweet spots” for ring sizes.
1.2″ O.D. (half dollar 1.7 mm thick) is great for men’s sizes from 9 – 14. You can go bigger or smaller but the pattern can become distorted if you do. Also, the ring will become much thinner when stretched more and thicker when reduced more. .96″ O.D. (quarters 1.36 mm thick) work well for woman rings size 4-8 or so. Same issue when stretched or reduced past these sizes. 1.5 ” O.D(silver dollars 2.62 mm thick) work well for size 11 plus. Up to 25 or even a woman’s small cuff bracelet.
I guess the O.D. is designating the general “mass” of the ring in conjunction with the I.D. and thickness. Thickness is also a consideration. I’m thinking 9 gauge for men’s because a man typically wants a good hefty ring. This may be on the thicker side but I am assuming a thinning of the metal when you roll the pattern. If you etch it on, I’m wondering how that may feel. The cut side or hole side of the ring will be about 1/3 thinner due to stretching, leaving 2 mm of metal. Before you order the silver, you may want to experiment on some copper to see what you like in regards to thickness? Can you roll the sheet yourself to a thinner gauge if need be? I would say your safe with a minimum of 1.4 mm for woman and minimum 1.6 mm for men.
So, small O.D.’s cant be big rings without massive distortion, thinning and narrowing of the band. Large O.D’s cant be smaller rings without distortion, thickening and widening of the bands. There is a sweet spot for O.D’s, band width, and thickness in regards to ring sizes and patterned metal.
I like to use 7/16″ for quarters and 1/2″ to 9/16″ for halves. For dollars, i use 5/8″ to 3/4″. Pending ring size and overall look. Larger holes mean narrower band width. The hole size doesn’t effect the ring size as the size can be changed. You will need wider bands for larger rings as they narrow as their stretched. Smaller rings require larger holes because the bands widen as they are reduced.
Good idea to start there. Clad quarters, clad halves and clad dollars then into silver coins, gold and platinum.
- walking liberty half dollar
- Morgan dollar
- Columbian Exposition half dollar
- Isle of man Angel
- Japanese silver coins
- Swiss silver coins
- Indian silver rupees
- Tunisian coins
- Ukrainian coins
- Platinum eagle
- gold eagles
- Swiss silver coins
The hole size changes the width of the band. It is not directly correlated to ring size. So the hole size will determine the width only and that is more personal preference. I have been moving toward a more narrow band recently.
Another question to consider is what coins would you use? For a mans ring, half dollars and dollars seem to work best. Also, if your making a huge ring, size 17 or so, you may want a wider band width to begin with so this would be a smaller punch.
The most common men’s ring size is about a 10.5. For a half dollar, I would use an 9/16″ punch. for a dollar for this ring size, I would use a 11/16″. For bigger sized rings, I might go down a size or two, for smaller ring sizes, I might go up a hole size or two.
Quarters are pretty small to make but can be done. Size 8 is about max or you will start to loose detail. 7/16″ or 1/2″ on these.
Yes, the master kit has he 25 degree dies in it. Be sure to use the 17 degree dies for folding and initial reduction. Stretch your ring way past your target size, 3-4 sizes for a half dollar, 4-5 for a Morgan. Reduce with a 17 first a size or two down and then switch to the 25 degree dies to finish. Reduce the reed side first to your target size then match the cut side. Wider bands make better fat tires = smaller holes punched.
UPDATE: I AM UNABLE TO OFFER CLASSES AT THIS TIME. PLEASE CHECK BACK WHEN THIS WILL BE OFFERED AGAIN
I do offer classes. One is at Rio Grande in Albuquerque every fall. Usually in September. Great class. 3 days with 10 students at $450. You’ll need to get on the waiting list to get in. Here is a link and contact info for that:
https://www.riogrande.com/category/classes
I also offer one-on-one classes at my shop, over the internet, or even at your place. Suggested fee is $100 per hour with meals included. The training is recorded for you as well.
I certainly understood to start out slow. If I were starting out, my Auto Starer Kit would be my choice. This and a ring stretcher/reducer machine would be the main tools. Durston makes the best stretcher/reducer but is pricey and worth it at around $400.
There are ways to start for less too though. There are less quality stretchers available on Amazon. My manual also talks about simpler methods without as much tooling. I suggest reading that a few times and see what you think.
We process orders every Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings and try our best to ship on those days. Christmas is the busiest time of course. We ship United States Postal Service 2-3 day priority domestic and international we ship United States Postal Service 6-10 business day priority. Be aware of international orders will need to pay their countries VAT tax and custom’s fees to pick up there order.
Not too much difference between the two sites. I prefer my personal site, but which ever you are comfortable using. Etsy price includes shipping.
I do use a 1 tom arbor press quite a bit. I use it for folding with my steel starter cone and universal folding mandrel and also for the Swede dies and future bell tools.
I use the arbor press more than my hydraulic press but I do have a lot of upper body strength that I rely on for the larger coins. Durston is working on a handle extension for his ring stretcher reducer that will increase the power of the rings stretcher. I make Morgans solely with my Durston stretcher/reducer now.
I own a Durston. These are the best. He his also working on getting a handle extension for it as well.
I first owned a Pepe. If you can find a used one, that would be good to start with. Otherwise, there are cheap ones on amazon less than $200. These wont last but would get you started.
This is the most common question and the most difficult to answer. Each person is a little different in what they want to make and the tools that fit their style. The four main steps though are:
- Punch a hole.
- Fold it
- Stretch it
- Reduce it.
The best way to find out what you need is to get as much information as possible before committing to tools. My manual is a great way to learn a lot of information quickly. Many years of trial and error can be found in the manual. If you can understand the concept, that will show you what you will need pending on your goals with the craft. Here is a link to the manual.
Also Youtube videos found here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRjgtgFUD2y2fZ7Q0wQxnlA
Coin Ring Crafters is also a great resource for people to learn old and new techniques from an amazing group of folks:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1374273612883680/
The starter kit I offer is a great way to get started in tools. It has the “meat and potatoes” of tools and will allow you to make the majority of popular coin rings and the most common sizes. The must haves are the 17 degree dies, punch, folding cones, and the steel starter cone. Here is a link to the starter kits.
The other main tool needed to get started is a ring stretcher/machine. Here is my favorite one: https://www.riogrande.com/Product/Durston-Ring- Stretcher-and- Reducer/112066
From there, you can build up your tools and expand your options for making coin rings and other jewelry.I grew my business small and let the sales of the rings pay for new tools and for research and development. Each coin smith has their own way of making coin rings so it is best to learn from many smiths and find your own technique. You’ll be surprised at what you can accomplish!
No. It is not illegal. Here is an excerpt from my manual discussing this:
Legality
There is always the question of “Isn’t that illegal, to deface coins?” The law states:
Federal statute 18 USC 331 “whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”
The key word is fraudulent. Because we are not defacing to defraud, there is no concern of legality. We are merely making jewelry, not gold plating a nickel and trying to pass it off as a five dollar gold piece, that is illegal (if gold and silver were still considered money by the Government). Also, by using pre 1965 U.S. silver coins, or foreign coins, there is not a concern due to the ability of melting down these coins for their metal value. An immeasurable amount of U.S. silver coins have been melted down in the past few decades to get to their silver content.
I recommend using clad quarters first and then clad half dollars. Clad coinage is the coins we use today. Their metal value is much less than their face value (except nickels). Most are made of nickel cladded copper or copper cladded zinc. (NOTE: Clad coinage will turn fingers green due to copper reacting with skin. Also, some people have a reaction to nickel). These are inexpensive and the best to learn on. When you can make a consistent clad quarter ring, move up to a clad half dollar. once you have that figured out, move up to a clad dollar like an Eisenhower dollar.
Once you have these coin rings under your belt, then move to the silver quarter, silver half dollar, and finally the silver dollar in that order. Once you have silver figured out, then move into gold and then finally platinum. The risks increase as you move up in the value and rarity of these metals but so do the rewards.
There are a few aspects of coins that make them difficult to work with. These are:
1. Thick and thin coins. This causes the coin to wobble and distort while being made. These coins include silver quarters, Ben Franklin Half dollars, mercury dimes, and any high relief coin. The Swedish Wrap tools and technique is a great way to get around this issue. The 17 degree dies are still need though to start the fold and final shaping.
2. Reticulation. This is when silver gets too hot when annealed and can cause a bubbly skin on the coin. I have noticed a few coins that this can happen too easier than others. These are JFK half dollars, Ben Franklin half dollars, and silver Mexican Pesos. The trick here is to anneal in a dark room and only take them to a dull red.
3. Difficulty in getting money back from scrap and mistake coins. Silver and gold coins are the easiest to sell to a refiner or gold and silver scrapper. Platinum can be difficult, as well as palladium. If you can find a local refiner or scraper that takes these metals for a fair price, that is a great way to go. You can also barter with me for tools as well. I like precious metals. Honestly though, I see it as money in the bank. Actually, better than money in the bank, especially silver. Hold on to it as an investment if you can but if you need to sell it, find a place before you invest in a roll of platinum coins.
So the easiest coins are the clad coins we use today, silver Barber coins, and any other coin of a common metal and without a high relief.
This will depend on several factors. The first factor is do you want to sell quantity or quality?
If it is quantity, then you should be near the lower end of the market. Say $5 for a clad quarter. That is pretty low, but you’ll sell a lot. Do some research though and see what the market is showing. $19.95 for a silver half dollar is common. $30 an hour is a respectable earning for a skilled artisan. See if your work and price come close to that amount after material costs.
If you are going for quality, then you need to bump the price up but make sure you are worth the cost. The quality has to be high, Also, do not make clad coin rings if going for quality. The “green finger” will come back to bite you with unhappy customers. I started with silver coinage at relatively low prices and worked my way into gold and platinum. As my name got out and demand increased, I raised my prices to lower demand. The other option would be to hire employees. I didn’t want to do that, but you might?
The second factor is where are you going to be selling them? Internet, jewelry stores, coin shops? If selling in stores, is it a tourist location? The internet is great. It allows everybody with a computer to be a possible customer. Coin shops and jewelry shops are good as well. Offer them a wholesale price or barter for coins if they have them. Offer a deal for every five coins, you’ll make them one to sell.
Can’t find the answers you’re looking for? Feel free to CONTACT ME
