COMMON QUESTIONS PEOPLE ASK
Great question on the stone setting! I need to do a video on that.
It is excellent that you are working on a platinum coin ring! This metal can be a bit tricky. I generally recommend trying a gold coin first but it sounds like you have the skill sets to do platinum. The first one is always the most exciting!
Here are some points of interest I have learned about platinum:
1. It anneals similar to silver and gold. Take to a dull red heat in a pitch black room, let cool to a dark heat and quench in cool water.
2. Ferrous metal can stain the platinum, especially if the platinum is hot. I use copper tongs/tweezers to grab the coin when I am annealing.
3. Because of the stain issue, I use a separate set of brand new finishing tools for platinum like the buffing blocks, tweezers, burnishers, etc. I use the standard Jason’s Works (JW) forming tools and techniques when shaping.
4. Platinum can get an “orange peel” surface if stretched or reduced a lot. I limit the size options for rings due to this. Platinum is very very dense so a 1 ozt coin is about the size of a silver half dollar. Size 9-12 would be ideal for an American Platinum Eagle. I try not to overstretch as much as I usually would before reducing because of the orange peel issue. I’ll use a JW stainless steel and plastic folding mandrel or cone to stretch the cut side to shape. It is a very interesting feeling to have such a small ring weigh so much on the finger!
5. If using an American Eagle, I like a wider band to keep the date as much as possible.
6. Platinum does not polish like other metals. It has more of a smearing characteristic. The metal is not really removed by filing, sanding or buffing. It is kinda sticky, per say? That is one reason people like platinum rings as they do not wear down as much over time by the loss of metal. In order to get a high polish on the cut side of the ring you will need to use a burnishing tool. This will achieve a high polish for you. I use the white side of the Sally’s Miracle Buffing Block to polish the rest of the ring. It is more of a burnishing block on that side.
Hope this helps, I’m excited for you! These are fun to make and a great skill set to have. Always nice to expand one’s knowledge and get the heart pumping when silver gets a bit mundane 🙂
J
That is a great question. I prefer to finish my polishing using the white buffing side of my Sally’s Miracle buffing block. This leaves a mirror finish without any residue. I do use something else that may work for you though? It is a sonic cleaner and steam pressure cleaner. I think the sonic cleaning may help loosen the residue and then the high pressure steam could then remove it? Here is a link:
https://www.riogrande.com/product/gemoro-ultraspa-ultrasonic-and-steam-cleaner/334000
I use this machine to remove grime and grit in between stones and their settings at a microscopic level. I think this would work well. Be sure to read the instructions when refilling the distilled water tank. It is a little counter intuitive.
Hope this helps.
Thanks!
Jason
Aluminum, unfortunately, is not a good metal to use. The melt point is extremely low and it has very strange characteristics. Brass, bronze, copper, silver, gold, platinum, and some other non ferrous metals are o.k. Nickel can cause allergic reaction to about 20% of the population so that is not recommended but can be done. It is a hard metal as well requiring a lot of force. There are quite a few metals that can be considered toxic, like lead. Aluminum as well in fact.
No problem with that. Just make sure the round is annealed. I have done a 2″ brass round before. You can also pre-bevel the edge of the coin where it makes contact to create a larger surface area. The zinc coating may wear off but that is o.k. The top housing is case hardened and will hold up.
These can be tough. They like to wobble and split a lot because they are so thick and thin in places. SIze 15 is huge for this coin. I usually do not go past 14 for a half dollar and this particular coin would want to split.
Annealing is taking the coin to a dull red heat in a pitch black room, letting it cool to a dark heat then quenching in water. . If you have any light on it, you will not see the true color. This is done as needed throughout the ring making process. The coin will work harden as you make the =ring, stretching and reducing the metal. I would suspect about 4 annealings would be sufficient for that ring size.
You will need to overstretch the ring 2-3 times past you target size to get a symmetrical looking ring, that means stretched to a size 17 minimum. You will lose some details because of this and most likely split the ring. Be sure to remove any and all stress risers (micro tears) along the cut edge to help keep it from tearing. Stretch in small increments, twisting the ring to place it on a different part of the stretcher each time and check for stress risers often.
The reed side will always be a smaller size because it is thicker. It is thicker for two reasons.
Number one reason is that this part of the coin is thicker. The reed is thicker or raised in order to protect the detail of the coin. As you slide your silver dollar across the bar to pay for that beer, the reed is making contact with the bar and not the “field” of the coin, the detail of the coin. This allows the coin to wear less in order to recognize the coin for a longer period of its life.
The second reason is the forming of the ring. When the hole is punched (in the thinner field of the coin) it is folded and stretched to form the ring. This stretching thins out the metal even more of the cut side. The reed side is compressed and is thickened even more.
This is why is is so important to overstretch your ring past your target size and then reduce the reed side first to hit your target size and then take the overstretched cut side and reduce it to only match the outer look of the reed side making a symmetric ring. If you do not overstretch your ring first, your rings will look conical. The more you overstretch, the more rounded or fat tire look you will get. The less you overstretch, the less rounded appearance you will have. I like 1-2 sizes over for quarters. 2-3 sizes over for half dollars and 3-4 sizes over for dollars. I like a little rounded, not too much.
You don’t have to extrude the ring. You just have to press it in as far as you need to get the size and shape you want. This is the reason for the witness lines on the pushers. You can take notes on what line will give you a certain size for a type of coin. You should be able to get a max size of 20+.
You can flip the ring over and press reed side down for your last push to get a straight wall. For example, if your target size is 12, push down reed side up until you get a size 13 or so, flip over and press reed side down until you get size 12, take notes on your witness lines for repeat sizes in the future, I actually don’t use the lines myself. With enough time you just get a feel for it.
I actually only us the swede die to about 2 sizes over my target size then finish in the 17 and 25 degree dies. I like that look, a soft round.
This can be one or two things. Reticulation or orange peel.
Reticulation occurs when the surface of the metal begins to melt. It looks like wrinkles and happens during the heating process when you anneal and you get it too hot. To avoid this, anneal in a dark room and remove the flame to see the color of the metal. As soon as you see a dull red color, let it cool to a dark heat and quench in cool water. This is a general annealing rule for any non ferrous metal . Silver is the best thermal conductor so you will notice it heats up much quicker than any other metal and easier to reticulate.
Orange peel occurs when the surface of the metal becomes weak and starts to buckle. I have noticed this is more prevalent in the pure metals such as silver, gold and platinum. When the ring is reduced more and more or when it is stretched more and more. The more it is manipulated, the more orange peel will occur. Alloyed metals seem to not have this issue. I have not been able to find a resolution to this as of yet. Just let your customers know this occurs more with the pure metals and is unavoidable.
There are actually 3 different types of dies. Folding/reducing 17 degree dies, reducing/fat tire 25 degree dies and Swedish dies at 5 degree.
The most important die is the 17 degree folding reducing. This is the primary die for folding the coin to a cone then reducing the cone into a ring. You’ll need a steel starter cone and universal plastic folding cones to do this. The 25 degree die is optional to hel;p get a few sizes smaller and make a more rounded or”fat tire” look. the Swedish dies are also optional but give you more options in sizes as you can take rings down to a very small size, making straight walled rings and they also help to remove any wobbles.
The .9 x 1.0 @ 17 degree will fold and reduce U.S. quarters and similar sized coin. U.S. quarters are just under 1.0 inches, therefore they work in that die. U.S half dollars are 1.2 inches in diameter, so the 1.1 x 1.2 17 degree die is used to fold and reduce thoughts. As the ring gets smaller, you’ll need smaller dies. As you stretch it out, you’ll need bigger dies to finish it off.
It is generally copper that discolors. Brass and bronze have a large amount of copper in their alloy also causing the discoloration. Unfortunately, rings are so prone to wear, there is nothing long term that will protect them from interacting with a person’s skin. I have tried clear nail polish, lacquer, protecta clear, etc. (You also need to be careful of harmful chemicals with any coating) Gold plating may be the best but it is still only temporary, until the gold wears off. The best thing to do, if you make rings containing copper, is to let the customer know about the discoloration and why. It is just a chemical reaction with the skin. Some people get it more than others. There is also some that believe the copper can help with arthritis. This can be a benefit. I have met one person who had a negative reaction to silver. That was a first. (Perhaps a vampire?….eek!)
I do ship to Canada. Please be aware of the shipping cost, VAT taxes and customs fees however. This can add up. I ship USPS 6-10 day priority but it can take longer as customs can hold it for a longer time.
The punch will work with Canadian coins. Be aware though that many of your current coinage has a steel core with a nickel clad over it. This steel core, if exposed, can damage the reduction dies. The dies are designed for non-ferrous metals. Silver, brass, copper, gold, platinum, etc.
When you want to re-apply a patina to a ring, be sure there is no oil on the ring. Even just touching it once with bare fingers will not allow the chemical reaction as the oil acts as a barrier. Clean the ring with acetone. I like to use the paper blue shop towels. These are actually very clean towels to use. Place the ring into your black max or other patina solution without touching it with bare fingers or anything with oil on it. I let it soak for a few minutes.
Here are my steps when applying a new patina, or even reapplying. I use the Sally’s Beauty Supply Miracle buffing block with the white and grey side. I use the grey side to remove any fire scale on the ring and then buff with the white side. I’ll then clean the ring with acetone, apply the patina with black max. Once the ring is black, I will then buff the patina with the white side to a high black shine. This seem to “set” the patina a little more. I’ll then remove the patina from the high points of the detail with the grey side and finish with one last buff on the white side all over the ring.
Here is the link to the buffing block:
www.sallybeauty.com/nails/nail-tools-and-accessories/nail-files-and-buff…
It is rare for me to get a request to re-patina a ring. I try to let them know up front it will wear away. I don’t charge people if they ask though.
I do it the same the second time,. I just don’t have to remove any fire scale.
Here are my steps when applying a new patina, or even reapplying. I use the Sally’s Beauty Supply Miracle buffing block with the white and grey side. I use the grey side to remove any fire scale on the ring and then buff with the white side. I’ll then clean the ring with acetone, apply the patina with black max. Once the ring is black, I will then buff the patina with the white side to a high black shine. This seem to “set” the patina a little more. I’ll then remove the patina from the high points of the detail with the grey side and finish with one last buff on the white side all over the ring.
Here is the link to the buffing block:
www.sallybeauty.com/nails/nail-tools-and-accessories/nail-files-and-buff…
Here is the white lithium grease that is applied to the threads of the punch housings when manufactured:
www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Lithium-Grease-White/dp/B005T8OBP8/ref=sr_1_5
Be sure to clean the male and female threads thoroughly to remove any dirty grease and particles. Acetone works very well on cleaning or mineral spirits that cut oil. Apply a small amount of the white lithium grease on the male thread at the end of the top housing. This will evenly distribute the grease onto the female thread. Lithium grease actually adds a little friction, which is what you want. If you use a thin oil, the thread can screw too fast and lock up at the end of the thread.
- punch a hole
- fold it
- stretch it
- reduce it and finish
- punch a 9/16″ hole (wider band, used for larger rings and fat tire look. (I usually would punch a 5/8″ hole for this size ring and the look I like. ))
- bevel hole using deburring tool to remove stress risers
- begin to fold with steel starter cone
- anneal
- finish folding until coin hits plastic cone/mandrel
- anneal
- stretch out 4-5 sizes past target size (anneal as needed. I usually would stretcher 3-4 for a soft rounded look I like))
- reduce in 17 degree reduction die 1-2 sizes
- remove excess material on inside reed side with deburring tool
- finish reducing in a 25 degree reduction die to target size “anneal as needed”
- reduce cut side to look symmetric only, not size. Sizing is already finished.
- If you need to reshape, simply stretch and reduce again.
- “should not need need Swede for this coin and size unless wobbles form or you stretch too much and 17/25 degree dies start to remove detail on coin”
- file, sand, buff, patina and finish
- Crack open a cold one and enjoy ?
- punch a 7/16″ hole (wider band, used for larger rings and fat tire look. (I usually would punch a 1/2″ hole for this size ring and the look I like))
- bevel hole using deburring tool to remove stress risers
- begin to fold with steel starter cone
- anneal
- finish folding until coin hits plastic cone/mandrel
- anneal
- stretch out 3-4 sizes past target size (anneal as needed. I usually would stretcher 2-3 for a soft rounded look I like))
- reduce in 17 degree die 1 size
- remove excess material on inside reed side with deburring tool
- finish reducing in a 25 degree die to target size “anneal as needed”
- reduce cut side to look symmetric only, not size. Sizing is already finished.
- If you need to reshape, simply stretch and reduce again.
- “should not need need Swede for this coin and size unless wobbles form or you stretch too much and 17/25 degree dies start to remove detail on coin”
- file, sand, buff, patina and finish
- Crack open a cold one and enjoy ?
Here is a vid on the auto punch:
- walking liberty half dollar
- Morgan dollar
- Columbian Exposition half dollar
- Isle of man Angel
- Japanese silver coins
- Swiss silver coins
- Indian silver rupees
- Tunisian coins
- Ukrainian coins
- Platinum eagle
- gold eagles
- Swiss silver coins
Yes, the master kit has he 25 degree dies in it. Be sure to use the 17 degree dies for folding and initial reduction. Stretch your ring way past your target size, 3-4 sizes for a half dollar, 4-5 for a Morgan. Reduce with a 17 first a size or two down and then switch to the 25 degree dies to finish. Reduce the reed side first to your target size then match the cut side. Wider bands make better fat tires = smaller holes punched.
We process orders every Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings and try our best to ship on those days. Christmas is the busiest time of course. We ship United States Postal Service 2-3 day priority domestic and international we ship United States Postal Service 6-10 business day priority. Be aware of international orders will need to pay their countries VAT tax and custom’s fees to pick up there order.
This is the most common question and the most difficult to answer. Each person is a little different in what they want to make and the tools that fit their style. The four main steps though are:
- Punch a hole.
- Fold it
- Stretch it
- Reduce it.
The best way to find out what you need is to get as much information as possible before committing to tools. My manual is a great way to learn a lot of information quickly. Many years of trial and error can be found in the manual. If you can understand the concept, that will show you what you will need pending on your goals with the craft. Here is a link to the manual.
Also Youtube videos found here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRjgtgFUD2y2fZ7Q0wQxnlA
Coin Ring Crafters is also a great resource for people to learn old and new techniques from an amazing group of folks:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1374273612883680/
The starter kit I offer is a great way to get started in tools. It has the “meat and potatoes” of tools and will allow you to make the majority of popular coin rings and the most common sizes. The must haves are the 17 degree dies, punch, folding cones, and the steel starter cone. Here is a link to the starter kits.
The other main tool needed to get started is a ring stretcher/machine. Here is my favorite one: https://www.riogrande.com/Product/Durston-Ring- Stretcher-and- Reducer/112066
From there, you can build up your tools and expand your options for making coin rings and other jewelry.I grew my business small and let the sales of the rings pay for new tools and for research and development. Each coin smith has their own way of making coin rings so it is best to learn from many smiths and find your own technique. You’ll be surprised at what you can accomplish!
No. It is not illegal. Here is an excerpt from my manual discussing this:
Legality
There is always the question of “Isn’t that illegal, to deface coins?” The law states:
Federal statute 18 USC 331 “whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”
The key word is fraudulent. Because we are not defacing to defraud, there is no concern of legality. We are merely making jewelry, not gold plating a nickel and trying to pass it off as a five dollar gold piece, that is illegal (if gold and silver were still considered money by the Government). Also, by using pre 1965 U.S. silver coins, or foreign coins, there is not a concern due to the ability of melting down these coins for their metal value. An immeasurable amount of U.S. silver coins have been melted down in the past few decades to get to their silver content.
I recommend using clad quarters first and then clad half dollars. Clad coinage is the coins we use today. Their metal value is much less than their face value (except nickels). Most are made of nickel cladded copper or copper cladded zinc. (NOTE: Clad coinage will turn fingers green due to copper reacting with skin. Also, some people have a reaction to nickel). These are inexpensive and the best to learn on. When you can make a consistent clad quarter ring, move up to a clad half dollar. once you have that figured out, move up to a clad dollar like an Eisenhower dollar.
Once you have these coin rings under your belt, then move to the silver quarter, silver half dollar, and finally the silver dollar in that order. Once you have silver figured out, then move into gold and then finally platinum. The risks increase as you move up in the value and rarity of these metals but so do the rewards.
There are a few aspects of coins that make them difficult to work with. These are:
1. Thick and thin coins. This causes the coin to wobble and distort while being made. These coins include silver quarters, Ben Franklin Half dollars, mercury dimes, and any high relief coin. The Swedish Wrap tools and technique is a great way to get around this issue. The 17 degree dies are still need though to start the fold and final shaping.
2. Reticulation. This is when silver gets too hot when annealed and can cause a bubbly skin on the coin. I have noticed a few coins that this can happen too easier than others. These are JFK half dollars, Ben Franklin half dollars, and silver Mexican Pesos. The trick here is to anneal in a dark room and only take them to a dull red.
3. Difficulty in getting money back from scrap and mistake coins. Silver and gold coins are the easiest to sell to a refiner or gold and silver scrapper. Platinum can be difficult, as well as palladium. If you can find a local refiner or scraper that takes these metals for a fair price, that is a great way to go. You can also barter with me for tools as well. I like precious metals. Honestly though, I see it as money in the bank. Actually, better than money in the bank, especially silver. Hold on to it as an investment if you can but if you need to sell it, find a place before you invest in a roll of platinum coins.
So the easiest coins are the clad coins we use today, silver Barber coins, and any other coin of a common metal and without a high relief.
This will depend on several factors. The first factor is do you want to sell quantity or quality?
If it is quantity, then you should be near the lower end of the market. Say $5 for a clad quarter. That is pretty low, but you’ll sell a lot. Do some research though and see what the market is showing. $19.95 for a silver half dollar is common. $30 an hour is a respectable earning for a skilled artisan. See if your work and price come close to that amount after material costs.
If you are going for quality, then you need to bump the price up but make sure you are worth the cost. The quality has to be high, Also, do not make clad coin rings if going for quality. The “green finger” will come back to bite you with unhappy customers. I started with silver coinage at relatively low prices and worked my way into gold and platinum. As my name got out and demand increased, I raised my prices to lower demand. The other option would be to hire employees. I didn’t want to do that, but you might?
The second factor is where are you going to be selling them? Internet, jewelry stores, coin shops? If selling in stores, is it a tourist location? The internet is great. It allows everybody with a computer to be a possible customer. Coin shops and jewelry shops are good as well. Offer them a wholesale price or barter for coins if they have them. Offer a deal for every five coins, you’ll make them one to sell.
Can’t find the answers you’re looking for? Feel free to CONTACT ME